The FULL facts suggest that she' anything but a bad businesswoman. The WST should have gone in with her imo. What do you think OBL?


(13 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

Dean Saunders was never a name I would have put forward as Wrexham manager. At the time I would have gone for a manager with conference experience.

Read Dean's post-match comments after Tamworth to see how he's struggling. He keeps remarking on how he can't go out there and head the ball for them, how he keeps telling them how to defend set-pieces in training..

Dean has spent all his career working with 'intelligent' footballers. His biggest challenge has been to see if he could work with players who aren't 'instinctive'. Young players can still pick up a bit, old pro's know but haven't got the legs or the appetite anymore.
Why doesn't Dean sign the best players from this level? I don't think he feels he can communicate with them.
Constantly conceding goals from set-pieces suggests most clearly that things are going awry on the training ground.
I do find it slightly bizarre that Wrexham fans have put so much emphasis on good football being played when the truth might be we need a load of big lumps to kick and fight their way out of this division.

I doubt we could kick ourselves back into the league with the refs we get. I think Deano has his favourites, the defence had actually been doing well but he puts Westwood straight back in. Who are the best players at this level? I can't think of many that stand out, certainly none of the Burton players stood out for me last season. Let's be fair, Taylor has been a good signing and Adrian causes problems. Taboubi definitely has something to offer as well and Russell had been playing very well. The signings havent been too bad overall, it's something else.


(13 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

I know what I mean.

Can you remind when I was 'crying out for Deano to be appointed'?

Actually no I can't tongue. I'm not even saying he was a bad appointment but when little was manager you definitely put Deano's name forward. Are all premiership players really intelligent then? Firstly, Spann has a good football brain and has been made to look bad at times by others reading play poorly. Taylor has a good football brain but again others are failing to make the most of it. What do they have in common? experience. During the games we play there is not enough verbal help coming from these older players for the younger ones. I suspect that the same is so in training.

It's not a lack of brains it's a lack of knowledge, that's different. What you seem to be saying is that they don't have the ability to learn but it could be an inability to teach. The latter lies with the coaches, who must have some brains to get their badges, and the experienced players who must have brains to play higher up in the past going by what you say. If on the other hand you are correct then are you saying that the way Little wanted to play would be better?

I expect more from the team, not just the players but the coaches as well. Football really isn't as difficult as we make it look at times. That's where I'm really disagreeing with you, you wont bring young players on with low expectations.


(13 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

Oh dear.. Send them out 'to war' then moan when they spend all their time lumping it forward. My big worry with Dean is that he expects too much of the players at this level. I've been told by others in the game that coaching at this level involves working with players who aren't, in football terms, very bright. They have ability and they can be fit but they have to be told how to do things over and over again.
In other jobs, dean's working with players who think for themselves and who can adapt when the situation changes..
Gareth Taylor will be able to do that, I'm not sure about his teammates. I think Dean wants to sign players who have ability, but if they've got ability, strength and a brain, they won't be playing at this level..

To be honest Obl you were crying out for Deano to be appointed. Personaly I think that if you have low expectations you'll get what you expected. I don't think it's always a case of working with players without brains, it's up to the management to guid the young players as they learn the finer points of the game. Perhaps what you mean is that at this level you can expect players to be still learning, the secret is in getting a set up that can teach them.

0308391 wrote:
Lovettwatch wrote:

We had the same shtick before we went into administartion. Comrade Carroll (the Pétain of the Yale Stand) setting up some rival fund to the Trust, to pay Hamilton's tax bill or something. And they even had a snappy catchphrase "no strings attatched", which is repeated by Moss of late.

The Wrexham website is very careful not to mention the MT trust of course. Divide and rule, the first law of conquest.

You are out of order there mate. The ground would have been a DIY store and car park years ago bar for him and the Wrexham revival (and Pryce). They set out a stall for the likes of you to build on and regardless of mistakes deserve some respect. Interestingly, you and others gave 100% backing to one of the people they saved the club from without any guarantees and let him back in!!!! Don't get above yourself lad, you`re just a reader of books who likes to copy and quote.

And did I mention that regardless of whether you are right or wrong about Moss few people will ever take you and the WST seriously again? At least Carrol always conducted himself properly and respected his fellow fans.

Lovettwatch wrote:

We had the same shtick before we went into administartion. Comrade Carroll (the Pétain of the Yale Stand) setting up some rival fund to the Trust, to pay Hamilton's tax bill or something. And they even had a snappy catchphrase "no strings attatched", which is repeated by Moss of late.

The Wrexham website is very careful not to mention the MT trust of course. Divide and rule, the first law of conquest.

You are out of order there mate. The ground would have been a DIY store and car park years ago bar for him and the Wrexham revival (and Pryce). They set out a stall for the likes of you to build on and regardless of mistakes deserve some respect. Interestingly, you and others gave 100% backing to one of the people they saved the club from without any guarantees and let him back in!!!! Don't get above yourself lad, you`re just a reader of books who likes to copy and quote.

eusebio wrote:

... aka Suffo Speaks!

Here's a piece I cut for the website of my chat with Patrick Suffo

</blatant plug>

Nice one! Any chance of doing something similar with keb mo about Moss refusing to deal with the WST while he's involved?


(24 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

I would have taken at least one of my children to watch Leeds, after all, why travel over a hundred miles to watch lower league football when its right on the doorstep? However, paying a small fortune for the privilege has put me off. Me and the kids went to an FA Trophy quarter final on Saturday for the princely sum of £12.. my one and only consolation.

You use a lot of your brain-space considering where you think your loyalties lie.

eusebio wrote:
0308391 wrote:

... I'm looking forward to the rest of this recession just to see what happens (even though I just ordered a suit off Land of Leather 2 weeks ago).

Hepworths or Matalan would have been better for a suit ... and probably cheaper.

and I would have had just as much chance of it being delivered!

Lovettwatch wrote:

What they used to do 10-15 years ago was ideal. One up one down, and very stringent entry credentials. I can remember Kidderminster being refused for instance. Accrington's ground is a disgrace.

Everyone moaned about our away trips being mainly south of England when the fixtures came out. I now don't think it was a co-incidence. The property bubble saw every two bit non-league club (playing in their olde town centre grounds) in the south of England bought up by an "ambitious businessman who wants to see United/Town/Rovers in the Championship in ten years time" (local press passim). That's why all these two bit outfits are now going bust.

Football speard via industrialisation. England, the major industrial power during the games growth, also has a very strong lower league system because of the maximum wage. Even though it was abolished in the mid sixties, it led to industrialised areas having a large fanbase. That's why the Championship is the 4th best attended in Europe. I've been to a Spanish 2nd div game attended by 700.

This is the cancer that's rotting away at the whole lower league system.

But perhaps the stringent entry credentials would take away the benefits of producing a team able to win matches in favour of the teams that have the wealth to produce a stadium; that of course also means the clubs who can afford the has-been mercinaries who use the lower leagues to get a final pay-day. Football was a working class game that produced customers in the masses.... all wanting to be in the same place at the same time...... surely a dream situation for a wealthy investor (internet?). Harder to keep the players, who were breaking bones to keep the customers flowing, earning peanuts while the wealthy cashed in. Now, certainly in the top leagues, we have kids wanting tops with players names on just to fit in with their mates and even that is more important to them  than getting a ticket for the game; club owners are buying players for marketing more than their ability to play fooball. The non-league players, not just the Blue Square league but even the likes of Airbus, are now demanding wages ffs. Lets not kid ourselves that the only cancer of football are property developers, it's greed full stop that now comes before the sport. Fans now get criticised for daring to slate a player for playing bad or not even trying but can you blame them? Personally I can't wait for the whole thing, that is football from the premiership downwards, to go tits up and start again. I watch Wrexham but to be honest I don't have the same respect for footballers as I used to. I don't believe that many play for the fans or the club anymore than I used to fill the shelves in Tesco's for the owners and I don't believe that the youth academies are run for the benefit of youngsters anymore than I don't cut my lawn for the benefit of the worms. The world seems to have gone a bit stale for me, I'm looking forward to the rest of this recession just to see what happens (even though I just ordered a suit off Land of Leather 2 weeks ago).

CarlDouglas wrote: …

For those who don't know, Red Passion is a Wrexham message board populated by children, idiots and me. This "scandal" erupted on their yesterday and despite my best efforts at reason they managed to whip themselves up into a frenzy and demand vengeance. Normally that level of vitriol is usually reserved for stories of Stevie Evans being drunk, most of which I know to be untrue.

I agree with you, there is something cringeworthy about printing off pages from someones facebook account and running to their boss with them. I could see something like this happening, in fact I suggested to Gaz Evans that he keep his facebook profile private when the link to his page was posted on RP some 18 months ago. That being said..... what a bloody stupid thing for those two to do. I opened a facebook account for a couple of weeks and was uncomfortable about it the whole time, I just don't see the point in virtual drinks????


(3 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

Last night that I was watching Wales play away, I think it was in Hungary.. Aaron Ramsey scored two quick goals to put us three two in front with 83 minutes on the clock. His second goal saw him get the better of the goalkeeper as both kicked lumps out of the ball as it was trapped between them, I was amazed the ref gave the goal but he did and I was jumping around celebrating when the alarm on my watch started beeping.. typical, just seven minutes to go and I don't even get to enjoy an away win in my dreams...

I think I used to dream about sexy ladies, but I can't be sure.

Having an interest in psychology I have read this through several times and have concluded that your problem was your stomache. The team that Wales were playing speaks for itself and I have a feeling that you were only aware of the word Ramsey; this refered to Gordon not Aaron. Was he putting something on gas mark 3 on the second shelf? The ball between the 2 players obviously represents a piniata, they were trying to get the sweets out for you and thats why you were celebrating when you heard the sound of the microwave... (or perhaps a steamer??? 7 mins = hard boiled egg). So, nothing to worry about here sir, you just needed something to eat.

Happy New Year.


(2 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

It's  shame our game in hand couldn't be played this week, the teams above will be looking over their shoulders nervously at us. I have to say that I'm pleasantly suprised at the turnaround since Saunders came, his enthusiasm is superb; he seems to have more contacts that I expected too.


(18 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Oh ye. Happy birthday.


(18 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

CarlDouglas wrote:

It's my birthday tomorrow. How do you reckon I am spending it?

That's right, I am leaving home at 7am to drive with my boss and another colleague to a tax training course in Oldbury in the West Midlands. It has just taken me over an hour to print out the course notes.

On the plus side, the tax department usually put on a decent buffet and I will be able to have a kip when we are stuck in the inevitable jam on the M6 as I am not driving.

I will try and do a live update from the course if you want. It won't be as exciting as South America, I grant you, but it could be educational. Last year we learned that Jaffa Cakes are officially cakes and not biscuits in the eyes of the law and for VAT purposes. Apparently McVities' lawyers successfully argued that cakes go hard when they go stale and biscuits go soft. Jaffa cakes do the former, ergo they are cakes. No further questions your honour.

Sadly I would be bery interested in your course.

I'm currently learning to teach A level maths and, as with maths across the board these days, I have to put the concepts into practical situations. I'd be especially interested in things like maths theories that are used to identify fraud (ie figures not being random etc).

I would finish by telling you to enjoy the course but that would just be daft wouldn't it.


(43 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Not the most inspiring speach by Saunders in the press conference but then he'd only made the decision the night before and Moss had seemingly marched him down to colliers to sign a contract and entertain the press before he could think again. The result was a man trying to pick the right things to say off the top of his head which was interesting. The message about the players needing a win attitude or they are out was good, the stuff about Wxm not being where they should be was good (although it seemed a good get out clause when he couldn't think of anything else to say). However, he still managed to cover himself with his "if a manager has his hands tied behind his back" comment which was followed by him saying that he will be able to bring players in. That is the part that made the press conference unconvincing for me.

Does anyone have the figures for Saunders' acheivements in terms of trophies etc? I'm just wondering how he defines a loser. Is it someone who plays for a team that loses, doesn't win trophies and gets relegated? or is it someone who doesn't try? If it's the first then we have at least a part loser for a manager but from his comments about not expecting Maradonna but judging players on effort then he views a loser as the latter. Are we going to be expected to accept defeat so long as they tried?

This episode will really define where we are with our current owner. If Obl is correct and Saunders goes by March then the underlying issues could well see the clubs demise.


(43 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Have you got an opinion on them as potential managers?  For what it's worth I don't think that either would make particularly good managers (although to be fair I once had a row with Rodney Marsh live on TV about how Wales were wrong to appoint Mark Hughes before he had experience).


(37 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

It's a bit like the guys on this program trying to find out what Pi really is: … 0902.shtml

In fact the similarities are startling. Pi has no pattern - neither does the way we play. Pi appears to be infinite - so does our misery. Squaring a circle is a bit like knocking a peg into a round hole (I think) which is what managers without funds have to do. It has caused some confusion about the area - strikingly similar to our defence/goalkeeping.

Finally Pi has been the cause of many sleepless and restless nights... need I say more? and, even though 14 digits after the decimal point can only help calculate the size of the universe to within a proton they are still better than Vauxhalls.

How long will it be before more long-time fans turn off the live match commentry and listen to Melvin Bragg instead?


(37 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

eusebio wrote:

Can you point out a posting where I said he'd be good?

I neither need to or want to. Like everyone else who gives regular opinions on their club I'm sometimes right and I'm sometimes wrong. I did say that I wasn't impressed with long ball tactics but suggested it is partly the owners fault due to lack of funds and felt that BL could cope with it and get us to the playoffs. However, I have no difficulty in admitting that someone else was right when that is the case and that's all I've done on this thread, I don't see your problem with that.

Like many others I have better things to do with my money and time if the team wont even attempt to play football but I did try to give the team a fair chance to gel. It seems obvious that obl and others were right in stating that this style of play is BL's way which makes him unsuitable for Wxm in my view.

I haven't got the stomach for an argument with you mate; I'm just as disillusioned about football as many others at the moment.


(37 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

eusebio wrote:

It's not like we haven't mentioned his complete lack of tactical nous ... so how come it's taken till now for you to catch up, numbers?

I was trying to be positive. Probably the same reason why it took you 18 months to catch up with my view that Nev would be bad for the club.


(37 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Yup! Defeat on Tuesday and Moss will be asserting his "full backing" for the manager.


(37 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Sadly it's looking like you were right. hmm    Frighteningly we may know for sure by this time next week!


(23 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

Deeside_Dragon wrote:

I agree with what your saying, apart from the last bit.
Do you really think Moss & Co, are going to shell out a shit load of money just to rid us of the negative Little ?

p.s. hope your right though

The way I understood it Little said that if it wasn't going right then he'd walk. I personaly think that if we are in a play off spot then he'll stay and the owners will want to hold on..... if not then I agree with you that they wont spend to get rid but that depends on the contract I suppose; I do think that Little is a man of his word and would walk away if we are outside of the play-off zone. However, I think that we will hold a play-off spot at Christmas whether that be through long-ball tactics or whatever.


(23 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

If you'd been at Altrincham, you'd have had moments when you felt it couldn't have been much worse. Watching Jefferson Louis put a perfectly presentable chance about 20 feet over the cross bar, over the small terrace roof behind the goal was, thus far, my Wrexham nadir.

We were in an obvioulsy non-league ground, watching two sets of obviously non-league players, we were losing and our one and only proper striker had just launched a shot into Manchester airport airspace.

We have the best support in the league, we have the biggest squad in the league, we have a number of players who will be earning the highest salaries in the league, most of our players have experience of playing at a higher level, we have a multi-millionaire owner and a manager who has managed in the Premier League, we have the biggest ground in the league, we have by far the best training ground in the league. So considering all that, should we not be top having won every game so far?

I wasn't at Altrincham and I certainly thought we should have done better at York. With all of the points you make it would indeed seem fair that we shouln't have been relegated to start with. It all comes back to the club owners really. I don't know about you, but whereas I was glad to see Dickens bought out (yet he's still lingering about in his new "role")I still don't have a clue about the long term plans for the ownership of the club; I still don't get a sense of commitment from Geoff.  So we still have a good experienced manager as we had with Denis Smith but the backing from the owner is iffy, just as it was then. Denis tried to overcome this with loan players while Brian Little is trying to overcome it with long ball tactics.

So I suppose we can now whittle it down to the ambition of the owners; considering this we are doing ok to be looking like being in with a shout of the playoffs.


(23 replies, posted in Lower League Dramatics)

ObL69 wrote:

Considering what?

Considering the whole team has practically been changed in a short period; the Nev and Geoff saga/takeover/whatever it is that's happening; the continuing uncertainty surrounding the ground etc. We had a challenging start regards the teams we have played (apparently). Despite all this the crowds are good (excellent really), the team spirit seems good and we look as though we'll be there or there abouts come the end of the season. I do also prefer to see good football but what can you do? This season is about getting a job done and I think it's been a promising start. We havent always been a good footballing side, before Flynn we had a few years where we never put 5 passes together in a move and Salathiel was crossing into the box from just over the half way line.

Could be a lot worse couldn't it?