Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Travis Bickle wrote:
Smutty Lips wrote:

Why all the bitterness at the Scots daring to question what they have in common with a rabidly right wing England? I don't get it.

Not bitterness on my part, more the fact the SNP aren't running the socialist utopia so many imagine or claim and yet hold themselves out as saviours.
They're not actually up to much when it comes to running anything. They rode on a wave of dissatisfaction with a Parliament in London that didn't speak or act for Scotland. I get that but when you look at them in devolved government and in Westminster I reckon the Scots are poorly served. Interesting that the novelty has already worn off for Mahairi Black. Maybe if she tried meeting a few constituents and answering the odd letter she wouldn't be so bored....

No bitterness SL, I just think that she's a self serving rabble rousing shit house. The scots were given a referendum and were told that it was a once in a lifetime event. That should be so.

The supposed hardships scotland has faced are no different to large areas of the north of england. The working class experience of sheffield and the lack of representation of their views & wishes at Westminster is no different to any Scottish city. It's not the evil english per se, it's the evil Tories. Plus the historic east coast/west coast animosity and the sectarian stuff has got fuck all to do with people south of the border. Nor has a lot of scotland's society ills.

Economically/politically speaking, she's got champagne tastes on beer money. Her understanding of the word 'independence' differs from mine. She simply wants to attain the title of 'independence', but retain the protection and benefit of England's good points, like the £ and BofE, or she intends to change the supposedly yoke of the english for the yoke of the EU (basically germany or france). Both of which are hypocrisy. She probably envisages a situation where the EU would pump money into the country and they'd become hi tec/bio science/call centre centre, post brexit, just to piss the rest of the UK off, and she'd be treated as an equal by the likes of Merkel. Somebody other than the scots have to finance her view of an 'independent' Scotland. I read somewhere that to balance the books she's need to raise taxes on average £1k per tax payer, and that isn't sustainable.

And I'd still suggest that the spanish wouldn't be happy with scotland voting for independence and quickly being accepted into the EU fold.

Last edited by Misura (Tue 14 Mar 2017 8:54 am)

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Misura wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:
Smutty Lips wrote:

Why all the bitterness at the Scots daring to question what they have in common with a rabidly right wing England? I don't get it.

Not bitterness on my part, more the fact the SNP aren't running the socialist utopia so many imagine or claim and yet hold themselves out as saviours.
They're not actually up to much when it comes to running anything. They rode on a wave of dissatisfaction with a Parliament in London that didn't speak or act for Scotland. I get that but when you look at them in devolved government and in Westminster I reckon the Scots are poorly served. Interesting that the novelty has already worn off for Mahairi Black. Maybe if she tried meeting a few constituents and answering the odd letter she wouldn't be so bored....

No bitterness SL, I just think that she's a self serving rabble rousing shit house. The scots were given a referendum and were told that it was a once in a lifetime event. That should be so.

The supposed hardships scotland has faced are no different to large areas of the north of england. The working class experience of sheffield and the lack of representation of their views & wishes at Westminster is no different to any Scottish city. It's not the evil english per se, it's the evil Tories. Plus the historic east coast/west coast animosity and the sectarian stuff has got fuck all to do with people south of the border. Nor has a lot of scotland's society ills.

Economically/politically speaking, she's got champagne tastes on beer money. Her understanding of the word 'independence' differs from mine. She simply wants to attain the title of 'independence', but retain the protection and benefit of England's good points, like the £ and BofE, or she intends to change the supposedly yoke of the english for the yoke of the EU (basically germany or france). Both of which are hypocrisy. She probably envisages a situation where the EU would pump money into the country and they'd become hi tec/bio science/call centre centre, post brexit, just to piss the rest of the UK off, and she'd be treated as an equal by the likes of Merkel. Somebody other than the scots have to finance her view of an 'independent' Scotland. I read somewhere that to balance the books she's need to raise taxes on average £1k per tax payer, and that isn't sustainable.

And I'd still suggest that the spanish wouldn't be happy with scotland voting for independence and quickly being accepted into the EU fold.

Well put. Totally agree.

The insurgency began.................and you missed it.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Once again I'll question this right wing = Brexit thing.

I live in Bromsgrove. Has a big Tory majority.  Voted Brexit by 56%.
10 miles down the road is Redditch.  Staunch Labour seat.  Voted Brexit by 60%.

How can you look at the numbers and say it is the right wing voting for this?  It flies in the face of facts and simple mathematics.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Exiting the EU had a lot of left wing support.  Still find the whole thing fascinatingly bizarre.

Several unlikely alliances were formed; saw ex-RCP types in Wakefield sharing a platform with UKIP.

Also know one or two staunch left wingers who hoped Brexit would lead to the Tories disintegrating and a left wing Labour party taking power.

"We are The Fall"

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:

Once again I'll question this right wing = Brexit thing.

I live in Bromsgrove. Has a big Tory majority.  Voted Brexit by 56%.
10 miles down the road is Redditch.  Staunch Labour seat.  Voted Brexit by 60%.

How can you look at the numbers and say it is the right wing voting for this?  It flies in the face of facts and simple mathematics.

Yep and the sad thing is it's the right that are celebrating yet a lot of the answers are going to have to come from the left and Corbyn is not doing what's necessary.  He's letting the narrative turn against the left as the Labour party did post 2010 when they failed to counter the notion that Brown caused the world economy to collapse.

Many natural Labour voters are fed up with Labour talking a totally different language and yes they have lost a lot of votes to UKIP.  Does that make them right wing as people?  Many Labour voters are socially conservative so Labour's obsession with minority issues alienates them.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Misura wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:
Smutty Lips wrote:

Why all the bitterness at the Scots daring to question what they have in common with a rabidly right wing England? I don't get it.

Not bitterness on my part, more the fact the SNP aren't running the socialist utopia so many imagine or claim and yet hold themselves out as saviours.
They're not actually up to much when it comes to running anything. They rode on a wave of dissatisfaction with a Parliament in London that didn't speak or act for Scotland. I get that but when you look at them in devolved government and in Westminster I reckon the Scots are poorly served. Interesting that the novelty has already worn off for Mahairi Black. Maybe if she tried meeting a few constituents and answering the odd letter she wouldn't be so bored....

No bitterness SL, I just think that she's a self serving rabble rousing shit house. The scots were given a referendum and were told that it was a once in a lifetime event. That should be so.

The supposed hardships scotland has faced are no different to large areas of the north of england. The working class experience of sheffield and the lack of representation of their views & wishes at Westminster is no different to any Scottish city. It's not the evil english per se, it's the evil Tories. Plus the historic east coast/west coast animosity and the sectarian stuff has got fuck all to do with people south of the border. Nor has a lot of scotland's society ills.

Economically/politically speaking, she's got champagne tastes on beer money. Her understanding of the word 'independence' differs from mine. She simply wants to attain the title of 'independence', but retain the protection and benefit of England's good points, like the £ and BofE, or she intends to change the supposedly yoke of the english for the yoke of the EU (basically germany or france). Both of which are hypocrisy. She probably envisages a situation where the EU would pump money into the country and they'd become hi tec/bio science/call centre centre, post brexit, just to piss the rest of the UK off, and she'd be treated as an equal by the likes of Merkel. Somebody other than the scots have to finance her view of an 'independent' Scotland. I read somewhere that to balance the books she's need to raise taxes on average £1k per tax payer, and that isn't sustainable.

And I'd still suggest that the spanish wouldn't be happy with scotland voting for independence and quickly being accepted into the EU fold.

The english might not be evil, how about stupid? After the next election the north of england will be more Tory than it was in 1983. How about pointing out the rosy future facing Scotland as part of a post Brexit UK, take this as an opportunity to sell the union to them why not?

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

The EU will last. The Euro wont though. My 2 centimes worth.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

WYFSC wrote:

The EU will last. The Euro wont though. My 2 centimes worth.

So currently, Scotland want to remain in the EU but wish to keep the pound. London has stated, no chance, or words to that effect. If the Euro won't last, and I agree it won't, then that leaves them with only one option.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

WYFSC wrote:

The EU will last. The Euro wont though. My 2 centimes worth.

Yep.  One of my main worries was that Cameron sold out our ability to resist Euro entry when he was trying to barter a half way house for us.  It's possibly what pushed me over the edge, vote-wise.  I reckon we were going to be dragged in - without a popular mandate - to prop it up.

Brexit and Remain aren't poles apart - it's just a matter of where you draw the line between whats acceptable and whats not.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Mitaman wrote:
WYFSC wrote:

The EU will last. The Euro wont though. My 2 centimes worth.

So currently, Scotland want to remain in the EU but wish to keep the pound. London has stated, no chance, or words to that effect. If the Euro won't last, and I agree it won't, then that leaves them with only one option.


Lupins?


Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

They either need to all have the Euro and all have exactly the same banking rules, financial laws etc etc, or have their own currencies.

I dont think there would be any way in hell sterling would have joined the Euro outside of some kind of Godzilla attack.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

And she thinks that Scotland can slip out of the back door without taking their share of the national debt with them? Do the names Halifax Bank of Scotland and Royal bank of Scotland mean nothing? She's in cloud cuckoo land.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

I still think this could be a massive miscalculation on their part. The Brexit vote may have caused a rise in calls for independence but if the polls are to be trusted it wasn't a particularly significant one.
A campaign at the same time as the Brexit negotiations could put Scotland's arguably perilous finances in stark focus, perhaps more so than at the last vote. If they lose again, I can see them losing votes. They surely can't ride on the populist wave they did last time (populism comes in many forms)?

She’s the main man in the office in the city and she treats me like I’m just another lackey, but I can put a tennis racket up against my face and pretend that I am Kendo Nagasaki...

Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Travis Bickle wrote:

I still think this could be a massive miscalculation on their part. The Brexit vote may have caused a rise in calls for independence but if the polls are to be trusted it wasn't a particularly significant one.
A campaign at the same time as the Brexit negotiations could put Scotland's arguably perilous finances in stark focus, perhaps more so than at the last vote. If they lose again, I can see them losing votes. They surely can't ride on the populist wave they did last time (populism comes in many forms)?

Ok was thinking the same.  Its vey possible that any serious analysis of their budget could show the SNP up.  If their sums add up I would be very surprised to say the least.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Mitaman wrote:

And she thinks that Scotland can slip out of the back door without taking their share of the national debt with them? Do the names Halifax Bank of Scotland and Royal bank of Scotland mean nothing? She's in cloud cuckoo land.

Said that to mrs this morning.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Reggie Perrin wrote:
Mitaman wrote:

And she thinks that Scotland can slip out of the back door without taking their share of the national debt with them? Do the names Halifax Bank of Scotland and Royal bank of Scotland mean nothing? She's in cloud cuckoo land.

Said that to mrs this morning.

The rest of SNPs finance plan was also spurious.  They were relying on Britain paying them for their share of national assets.  i.e.  If Britain has 400 battle tanks then 10%, or 40 of them are Scottish, and at 20 million each that means Britain owes Scotland 800 million and will pay up.  Same with the rest of military and non-military assets.  Got an embassy in Moscow sat on land worth 60 million?  That's another cheque for  6 million please.  Yes.  Made out to CASH will be fine.

After a vote for Scottish independance there would come a point where it will parliaments job to do what is best for Britain and not Scotland.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Mitaman wrote:

And she thinks that Scotland can slip out of the back door without taking their share of the national debt with them? Do the names Halifax Bank of Scotland and Royal bank of Scotland mean nothing? She's in cloud cuckoo land.

That'd be circa £150bn, with a fifth due within 12 months of Independence. The previous prick said that he wouldn't pay a penny back. Do what those vulture funds do when they're chasing debt owed by countries, post independence, the first time the new Scottish fleet docks in a foreign harbour, get the bailiffs in. wink

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Never thought I'd nod along to Michael Heseltine speaking.

Call me up in dreamland. Radio to me man.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

That Article 50 resignation letter....holy mother, FFS. Never before has this country needed an experienced head, and we just don't have one. We need some serious negotiators and we need them quick otherwise this could be very very bad for the UK.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. This is about to get very expensive (in more ways than one) for the UK. Asset stripping as part of the negotiations..brilliant.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ … -say-spain

Probably 'bout time it was given back.

Last edited by Mitaman (Mon 03 Apr 2017 7:37 am)

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

....and as the whole thing unravels, it begins to be apparent what an evil, all encompassing entity the EU is. All nice and friendly and full of bon homie, whilst you're doing what the want and paying your subs, but when you exercise your democratic right to leave, they bare their teeth, and show their long held hatred for the UK. What started off as trading organization, has become a controlling force. 52,741 laws passed since 1990, is one hell of a volume. We were tolerated so long as we put the money in, but the centuries old rivalries bubble under the surface. As a country, we voted to leave, and it is imperative we leave on terms that do not mirror membership, but with harsher conditions. They are trying to make us wear sack cloth & ashes. What's the rule with contracts? That people are put in a better position by their ending, than if the contract had been performed? It's not for them to dictate to us how we exist as a country post brexit. I am happy to give Gibraltar back to the spanish right after they give cueta & melilla to morocco, the US is returned to the native americans and palestine back to the palestians, until then, park a vanguard in the harbour and if they want it, come and take it. It'd be interesting to see who the spanish would get do do their fighting for them, because they've done fuck all since 1604 (other than simmer with resentment) and don't have any money in the coffers to pay anyone of any repute. We don't want to fight but by jingo if we do, we've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too...... smile

Last edited by Misura (Mon 03 Apr 2017 8:31 am)

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Misura wrote:

....and as the whole thing unravels, it begins to be apparent what an evil, all encompassing entity the EU is. All nice and friendly and full of bon homie, whilst you're doing what the want and paying your subs, but when you exercise your democratic right to leave, they bare their teeth, and show their long held hatred for the UK. What started off as trading organization, has become a controlling force. 52,741 laws passed since 1990, is one hell of a volume. We were tolerated so long as we put the money in, but the centuries old rivalries bubble under the surface. As a country, we voted to leave, and it is imperative we leave on terms that do not mirror membership, but with harsher conditions. They are trying to make us wear sack cloth & ashes. What's the rule with contracts? That people are put in a better position by their ending, than if the contract had been performed? It's not for them to dictate to us how we exist as a country post brexit. I am happy to give Gibraltar back to the spanish right after they give cueta & melilla to morocco, the US is returned to the native americans and palestine back to the palestians, until then, park a vanguard in the harbour and if they want it, come and take it. It'd be interesting to see who the spanish would get do do their fighting for them, because they've done fuck all since 1604 (other than simmer with resentment) and don't have any money in the coffers to pay anyone of any repute. We don't want to fight but by jingo if we do, we've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too...... smile


Rousing stuff Mis.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

It's a fart in a coffee cup.  Postruring.  Accompanied with irresponsible media hysteria.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:

It's a fart in a coffee cup.  Postruring.  Accompanied with irresponsible media hysteria.

So I can stand down? I've spent the morning polishing my blunderbuss whilst checking my E111 covers me for intra european conflict.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Will Pablo Hernandez have to go out on loan like Ardilles did in 82?

Call me up in dreamland. Radio to me man.

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