Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

In essence we've only really had two governments since the war
1945 Introduction of the NHS Beveridge report nationalisation
1979 Slash and burn national assets, pure market economics
Blair was Tory light but he was right in saying you do need to reward enterprise you do need some form of profit motive or you lose all incentive
Globalisation has exploited the flaws of capitalism and the balance needs redrawing

ambition beyond ability

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Old Wharfedaler wrote:
space wrote:
Old Wharfedaler wrote:

Debate what?
It was a simple question.

Even you should see the irony in someone who has cunted off Corbyn on here for the last 2 years saying he "nearly voted" Labour!!

It's a bit like Misura saying he seriously considered getting a season ticket for Pigsborough this year!

Utter bollocks but you stay in denial Tory boy!


I. Don't. Vote. Tory.

But thank you for demonstrating why I don't vote Labour.  You don't even attempt to defend Labour policy, just immediately jump to the same negative politics that your chosen party has been doing since Blair got the leadership.  It's the politics of innuendo and playground hair pulling.

Why would I defend Labour policy?

Chosen party??....where do you get that from?

So you're anti-Corbyn/Labour but nearly voted for them anyway!!

But you're not Tory!

That's one fucking mixed up kid!

I thought I'd gone on record before to say that the entire shitty system is fucked beyond repair.  If I'm anything I'm an anarchist.  But I've got a kid who will be going to University a year before this term has finished.  It was entirely self interest.  But I ended up listening to my inner self and voting for the local Green candidate (who happens to be the lead guitarist of the band I hired for my 21st Birthday bash 30 years ago - he's cool as fuck)   

Brown and Blair should have put the breaks on house prices and lending by controlling interest rates and letting inflation rise some.  But they didn't.  The more house prices rose, the more votes they got and the more they liked it.  Before anyone (who doesn't understand basic economic principles) realised what was going on we were in a situation where we couldn't either borrow or inflate out of a bubble.  So they made borrowing cheaper to drive prices up more - the economic equivalent of putting fire out with petrol.  And all to cement a bit more time in power.   That's the situation Brown left.

We are fucked for two generations.  Doesn't matter who is in charge.  It can't be fixed in our lifetime without half the country being forced into default (at worst) or negative equity (at best).

But if someone (anyone!) tells you it can be fixed by borrowing some money to give the NHS then you are swallowing more bullshit (OK - I paraphrased the Labour manifesto a bit to save time).  And on the other side of the coin,. we're not going to balance the books by starving the poor and ill.  Both sides of the house are selling snake oil because no one wants to tell the electorate the cold hard truth.

If you can't borrow or inflate your way out of debt the only other course is to pay it back - and no one wants to do that because we're all collectively either too selfish to do so or too poor to be able to.  Hence my humble prediction of 50 years of hard fiscal anal fuckage.

So.......

My outlook is this......

We are fucked.  I am fucked.  You are all fucked.  Our kids are fucked.  Likelihood is that their kids are also fucked.  But just for fucking once can the cunts who want my vote stop lying the fuck to me and start telling me the cunting bastard fucking gob-shitting truth.

And that, Sir, is what I think of politics, politicians, and the whole rancid situation.




< fuck me that felt good.  Please still talk to me.  I'm fine now I've got it all out.  I'll go take my pills now >

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:
wogga wrote:

Ok just take the personality out of the debate
One side who have slashed benefits slashed capital investment created a low waged poorly skilled workforce
Or the other side who will rebalance the rich poor divide borrow to invest and start removing big corporations creaming off profits from essential services


That is precisely the truth - assuming you ignore anything that happened from 1997 to 2010.

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.

She’s the main man in the office in the city and she treats me like I’m just another lackey, but I can put a tennis racket up against my face and pretend that I am Kendo Nagasaki...

Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Travis Bickle wrote:
space wrote:
wogga wrote:

Ok just take the personality out of the debate
One side who have slashed benefits slashed capital investment created a low waged poorly skilled workforce
Or the other side who will rebalance the rich poor divide borrow to invest and start removing big corporations creaming off profits from essential services


That is precisely the truth - assuming you ignore anything that happened from 1997 to 2010.

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

Last edited by space (Sat 09 Dec 2017 8:54 pm)

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:
space wrote:

That is precisely the truth - assuming you ignore anything that happened from 1997 to 2010.

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

You say spurious, others would say investment in growth and public assets.  Serious council house building and letting councils keep them on their balance sheet whilst reducing their housing benefit burden is a classic example.  FFS 40% of right to buy has ended up with private landlords charging the earth.

Last edited by Reggie Perrin (Sat 09 Dec 2017 11:07 pm)

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:
space wrote:

That is precisely the truth - assuming you ignore anything that happened from 1997 to 2010.

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

Yes, the current state of the country is all Labour 's fault! Please clarify what your manifesto would have been? You mock Labour voters and the party for slagging of the tories, but you do the same with Labour and its voters. IMHO the policies the tories have brought in over the years have brought the UK to the position its in now, fucked.

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

space wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:
space wrote:

That is precisely the truth - assuming you ignore anything that happened from 1997 to 2010.

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

Blair was never what you describe. Not even close.

She’s the main man in the office in the city and she treats me like I’m just another lackey, but I can put a tennis racket up against my face and pretend that I am Kendo Nagasaki...

Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Travis Bickle wrote:
space wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

Blair was never what you describe. Not even close.


Which part is not factual?

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Re: The EU Hokey Cokey

Chopper Read wrote:
space wrote:
Travis Bickle wrote:

I'd have thought the events of the last 2 or 3 years would persuade you that the Labour Party is a very different animal now. Why do you think the PLP have behaved the way they have? Why do you think Morgan Stanley drew the conclusions they did about a future Labour government? Why do you think the right-wing press have undertaken an unprecedented character assassination on JC? The Labour Party has been and continues to be transformed. It's truly socialist. And not before time.

BTW they never said they'd clear the debt.


Blair.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.


Corbyn.  Hardcore Fabian style Marxist-Trotskyist Unilateralist.  Until he got voted into the leadership of the Labour party - then he turned populist.  Maker of fanciful election promises based on spurious costings.

Please forgive my scepticism over the new messiah.  The only difference so far is the dress sense and the smile.

(Edited to say...  I can think of a difference.  At least Blair had a job before politics.)

Yes, the current state of the country is all Labour 's fault! Please clarify what your manifesto would have been? You mock Labour voters and the party for slagging of the tories, but you do the same with Labour and its voters. IMHO the policies the tories have brought in over the years have brought the UK to the position its in now, fucked.


I'm no a fan of either party.  I was just pointing out that the whole shit with house prices going beyond the reach of people happened on Blair and Browns watch.  I think I clarified my manifesto.  I wouldn't have promoted cheap borrowed money to inflate house prices in return for popularity and some more time in power.  I thought I'd made that point quite clearly.

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