Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Travis Bickle wrote:
90Piesanhour wrote:

So, let me get this straight. Police being ordered to change statements and to declare these as true in court, in order to shift the blame on to the fans? Is this not perjury, falsifying statements and any number of other illegal things that if Joe Public did would see them serving time? How many plod are going to end up behind bars as a result? I think we know the answer.

And as for the Sun and TImes and that bellend Kelvin Mackenzie, what did we expect? Why do people continue to buy that Murdoch-owned trash, anyway? Don't they like thinking? I think we know the answer to that, too.

I think some officers will be charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice. I said yesterday that I didn't think they'd got for manslaughter but given the prevailing mood you never know.
I know he's been accused of jumping on a bandwagon but Burnham was right to call out the senior officers of South Yorks police for the manner in which they conducted the inquest, particularly given that it backfired spectacularly.

Perverting the course of justice was the one I couldn't remember! Disgraceful and despicable behaviour. What's the average sentence for that, Travis? Being moved to a desk job if you're a copper, I imagine?

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Hillsborough. For 27 years it's flitted in and out of the news. 27 years? Think where you were 27 years ago. Imagine being outside Hillsborough with your mates and it's not long until kick off in the semi final and you're buzzing with the atmosphere. And it's crowded and you're getting jostled and the sun's shining. And there's old blokes and young lads and bad moustaches and bad burgers and your ninety minutes from Wembley. And you're going to miss the kick off so you push forward and everyone's shouting to get a move on. And when they finally open the gate it's a huge human tidal wave and you shout over your shoulder to your mates that you'll see them inside as you battle to get through the turnstile. Apart from one mate who'll you never see alive again.

I'd been there with Leeds in 87. The kick off was delayed. When me and Daz got through the turnstile we came to the tunnel straight in front. It was like looking into the top of a fresh toothpaste tube of people. We tried to ram our our skinny frames into the mass of fans with little success and eventually gave up. The next tunnel along was slightly more forgiving and we somehow barged and elbowed our way in. I've never before or since been so uncomfortable at a match. That's the wrong word, it wasn't panic, but it was that feeling when you're not in control and you're just the right side of okay. Occasionally one foot would touch the ground or sometimes I'd gain or lose a couple of steps backwards or forwards with a Leeds attack or corner. But mostly I was suspended mid-air, supported by strangers. I'd chosen to wear a thick yellow jumper and as the temperature rose had to endure the consequences. I'd have happily ditched it but had no means to take it off. My arms were pinned to my side most of the time as I hung/stood like a skittle.

After the match as we were all trudging away exhausted, pissed off to lose but relieved to breathe, people were knocking on doors in the streets asking for water like battle weary troops. Women were handing out glasses over their gates.


When it happened, Leeds were at home in a dull end of season affair with a low attendance. There was a sombre announcement at half time that the semi final had been abandoned due to a disturbance and it was thought that some Liverpool fans may have died. I can see it now, on the Lowfields, in a sparse crowd of a maybe a hundred in that pen, one lad jumping up and down in celebration, both arms raised. I can see it now and I'll always see it. I don't know if it was a case of ‘Fuck em, we hate everyone and everyone hates us’ or he was simply a thick bastard, but it sticks in my mind.

One of my best mates at the time was at Hillsborough. He followed them home and away. After our match when the enormity of it all was starting to dawn I rushed home and rang his house. His mum was in a panic naturally. I didn't know what to think. He eventually called me about 8 o’clock. I can't remember what he said and I wasn't bothered, just relieved he was safe.

It's strange, I remember my dad being heartbroken by Hyesel but can't remember his reaction on that day. He'd taken me to big games many times, both Leeds and Liverpool, just as dads had taken their lads to Hillsborough, but we always came back.

Just reading the articles and the statements of the families breaks your fucking heart. As the years have gone by they've being called ‘whingeing scousers’. Jesus. What they've been through. The lies, the cover ups, the finger pointing, the accusations, the smears, the broken marriages, lost jobs, sleepless nights. To be told that their dead relatives and friends were drunken yobs who contributed to their own deaths when it was down to inept policing and a commander who froze when needed most. And for all those years and years and years to have to fight and fight and keep their dignity, I applaud them all. Bravo. You're stronger than I ever could have been.

Dignity - Thatcher, Ingham, McKenzie, Cameron, Johnson and the rest. Dignity and pride, you could learn something.

Jon-Paul Gilhooley was ten years old and he was crushed to death at the front of the terrace. His last memory would have been of sheer terror, gasping for air, surrounded by bodies and feet, urine and vomit and concrete. Just think about that. Whingeing scousers.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

luxury_scruff wrote:

The narrative has stuck though.

Look how threadbare this thread is.

I don't think that is generally the case LS, it’s just that the world moves on, its old news to many. I am very happy for those families to get some kind of closure, if that is even possible in such circumstances. At this time, I am more concerned with the 1000’s who have lost their homes in Kumamoto, it’s the way the world works I guess.

Edited to say I hope those involved in the cover-up are brought to justice, although I have my doubts that justice will ever be truly served.

Last edited by Mitaman (Thu 28 Apr 2016 1:48 am)

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Harvest wrote:

Hillsborough. For 27 years it's flitted in and out of the news. 27 years? Think where you were 27 years ago. Imagine being outside Hillsborough with your mates and it's not long until kick off in the semi final and you're buzzing with the atmosphere. And it's crowded and you're getting jostled and the sun's shining. And there's old blokes and young lads and bad moustaches and bad burgers and your ninety minutes from Wembley. And you're going to miss the kick off so you push forward and everyone's shouting to get a move on. And when they finally open the gate it's a huge human tidal wave and you shout over your shoulder to your mates that you'll see them inside as you battle to get through the turnstile. Apart from one mate who'll you never see alive again.

I'd been there with Leeds in 87. The kick off was delayed. When me and Daz got through the turnstile we came to the tunnel straight in front. It was like looking into the top of a fresh toothpaste tube of people. We tried to ram our our skinny frames into the mass of fans with little success and eventually gave up. The next tunnel along was slightly more forgiving and we somehow barged and elbowed our way in. I've never before or since been so uncomfortable at a match. That's the wrong word, it wasn't panic, but it was that feeling when you're not in control and you're just the right side of okay. Occasionally one foot would touch the ground or sometimes I'd gain or lose a couple of steps backwards or forwards with a Leeds attack or corner. But mostly I was suspended mid-air, supported by strangers. I'd chosen to wear a thick yellow jumper and as the temperature rose had to endure the consequences. I'd have happily ditched it but had no means to take it off. My arms were pinned to my side most of the time as I hung/stood like a skittle.

After the match as we were all trudging away exhausted, pissed off to lose but relieved to breathe, people were knocking on doors in the streets asking for water like battle weary troops. Women were handing out glasses over their gates.


When it happened, Leeds were at home in a dull end of season affair with a low attendance. There was a sombre announcement at half time that the semi final had been abandoned due to a disturbance and it was thought that some Liverpool fans may have died. I can see it now, on the Lowfields, in a sparse crowd of a maybe a hundred in that pen, one lad jumping up and down in celebration, both arms raised. I can see it now and I'll always see it. I don't know if it was a case of ‘Fuck em, we hate everyone and everyone hates us’ or he was simply a thick bastard, but it sticks in my mind.

One of my best mates at the time was at Hillsborough. He followed them home and away. After our match when the enormity of it all was starting to dawn I rushed home and rang his house. His mum was in a panic naturally. I didn't know what to think. He eventually called me about 8 o’clock. I can't remember what he said and I wasn't bothered, just relieved he was safe.

It's strange, I remember my dad being heartbroken by Hyesel but can't remember his reaction on that day. He'd taken me to big games many times, both Leeds and Liverpool, just as dads had taken their lads to Hillsborough, but we always came back.

Just reading the articles and the statements of the families breaks your fucking heart. As the years have gone by they've being called ‘whingeing scousers’. Jesus. What they've been through. The lies, the cover ups, the finger pointing, the accusations, the smears, the broken marriages, lost jobs, sleepless nights. To be told that their dead relatives and friends were drunken yobs who contributed to their own deaths when it was down to inept policing and a commander who froze when needed most. And for all those years and years and years to have to fight and fight and keep their dignity, I applaud them all. Bravo. You're stronger than I ever could have been.

Dignity - Thatcher, Ingham, McKenzie, Cameron, Johnson and the rest. Dignity and pride, you could learn something.

Jon-Paul Gilhooley was ten years old and he was crushed to death at the front of the terrace. His last memory would have been of sheer terror, gasping for air, surrounded by bodies and feet, urine and vomit and concrete. Just think about that. Whingeing scousers.

Is that your writing Harvest?  Fucking good bit whatever

That last bit brought tears to my eyes

I'm surprised the stadium owners,  whoever gave Hillsborough a safety certificate,  the 'promoters' of the event et al aren't getting grief in all this.  Maybe the police behaved so abhorrently it just overshadows all the other negligence and culpability

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Yes, but I was a bit pissed.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Harvest wrote:

Yes, but I was a bit pissed.

You should drink more then!

Moving and descriptive mate - you should get that somewhere more people can have a gander at it

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Poice incompetence.
https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2016/04/28/IMG_20160428_130030.jpg

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

"Jon-Paul Gilhooley was ten years old and he was crushed to death at the front of the terrace. His last memory would have been of sheer terror, gasping for air, surrounded by bodies and feet, urine and vomit and concrete. Just think about that. Whingeing scousers."

This........the fucking horror!

The photos in the papers the day after which showed fans at the front of the terrace with their faces embedded into the streel mesh of the fence have always stuck with me!

Doesn't bear thinking about really.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Horrific images and no sane person can have anything but sympathy for the families of the 96.  Much the same as the families of the 56 victims at Bradford and the 39 at Heysel.

I hope justice is served and those who have lied are dealt with apropriately.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Horrible series of events and most of us seem to have some peripheral memories. Remember all the instant experts, suggesting it was the Scousers carrying on.  Saw a lad in a Liverpool scarf, early that evening, on a Sheffield -Leeds train. Drip white isn't close to describing him.

Then the shit in the immediate aftermath... tea urns in the makeshift morgue, tagged Police Use Only.  And the instant shifting of blame. Nasty.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Andy Burnham on Question Time tonight. Pure class.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

"To tell you the truth, a lot of the younger lads don't care about the FA Cup, they think it's just something your Grandparents talk about. They'd rather we got knocked out." Trevor Davies - Streatham Rovers Football Club

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Watched the Jimmy McGovern drama documentary last night, saw it about 15 years ago.

The scene where the two hearses pull up at the Hicks house and Jenni Hicks shouts

"Trevor, Trevor, it`s the girls, the girls are home", is truly heartbreaking.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

The video has now been blocked unfortunately. It's an ESPN doc & wasn't able to be aired in the uk until after the inquest had returned a verdict. The BBC had a hand in it and it's meant to be being shown later this year.

Last edited by Misura (Mon 02 May 2016 6:10 pm)

"To tell you the truth, a lot of the younger lads don't care about the FA Cup, they think it's just something your Grandparents talk about. They'd rather we got knocked out." Trevor Davies - Streatham Rovers Football Club

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

He’s walked back to his youth and hymned the young man he was with knowing affection, despite the rain of bitter knowledge manhood has inevitably brought him.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Harrowing!

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Haunting scenes.

He’s walked back to his youth and hymned the young man he was with knowing affection, despite the rain of bitter knowledge manhood has inevitably brought him.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Strip away culpability, but from a purely humanistic point of view, there's things that people can't unsee. You can have all the counselling you want, but you'll see that when you shut your eyes for the rest of your days.

"To tell you the truth, a lot of the younger lads don't care about the FA Cup, they think it's just something your Grandparents talk about. They'd rather we got knocked out." Trevor Davies - Streatham Rovers Football Club

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

If you can use a proxy I think its on Netflix here. Never seen it and no intention to. I once tried to read Scranton's book but it made me cry.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Had not seen it before tonight. I cried through all of it.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Cuts wrote:

If you can use a proxy I think its on Netflix here. Never seen it and no intention to. I once tried to read Scranton's book but it made me cry.

Same here Cuts

Keeping my head in the sand about this is probably wrong but there's enough sadness in life without seeking it out

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

I remember a journalist at the time of the various beheading videos saying that he was compelled to report on such things but urged people not to act on their curiosity and seek out clips.  He says it will haunt him until the day he dies.  Similarly Werner Herzog when he listened to the audio recording of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend's death at the hands of grizzly bears.  Says it was so disturbing he cant even talk about it.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Reggie Perrin wrote:

I remember a journalist at the time of the various beheading videos saying that he was compelled to report on such things but urged people not to act on their curiosity and seek out clips.  He says it will haunt him until the day he dies.  Similarly Werner Herzog when he listened to the audio recording of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend's death at the hands of grizzly bears.  Says it was so disturbing he cant even talk about it.

I saw an old dear get run over outside the newsagents on the corner of Harehills Lane and Compton Road. The sounds she made lying there stayed with me for a long time. I felt useless, a few of us tried talking to her but I don't it registered.
I remember watching a documentary where they played the Kenneth Bigley footage. They stopped the moving images but continued with some of the sound. Fucking horrific.

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

I always think back to Kevin Carter when I hear stuff like this

A man so traumatised by what he'd photographed he took his own life at 33

There'll be people who will say "it was always in him to do that" but the horrific images that passed his eyes can't have helped

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Re: Hillsborough Inquest

Reggie Perrin wrote:

I remember a journalist at the time of the various beheading videos saying that he was compelled to report on such things but urged people not to act on their curiosity and seek out clips.  He says it will haunt him until the day he dies.  Similarly Werner Herzog when he listened to the audio recording of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend's death at the hands of grizzly bears.  Says it was so disturbing he cant even talk about it.

Never really knew the full story about Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend's death so on the back of your post RP,I googled it this afternoon.
Kinell,wish I hadn't now,it brought up some pretty gruesome images!

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