Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Djpekingman wrote:

Some really well reasoned arguments coming from Brexit  and their supporters. Apparently everything issued by the pro Europe or by europeans is scaremongering and propaganda. Well that settles it then.

To be fair mate.  Some of it is.

It will be the fear of the unknown that drives those who try and make a reasonable choice to vote "Stay", hence the value of scaremongering.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Professional scaremongerers outscaring amateur scaremongerers.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Smutty Lips wrote:

Professional scaremongerers outscaring amateur scaremongerers.

Bout the size of it.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Fear of the unknown is a pretty good driver. If things are so so, and alternative is guesswork or something that no one can put a finger on, but it might be ok or could be shit, then my vote is for the status quo everytime. When BMW issue a statement like they have today, then yes its scaremongering, but its also very real economics. For them to issue such a statement means to me that they already have contingency plans in case of a brexit, and that means moving production to an eastern european member state. Unfortunately what brexit may have already done is forced european members to create contingency plans which now highlight and existing economic reality - companies may act on these anyway.

Only those who dream will someday see their dreams converted to reality

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Djpekingman wrote:

Fear of the unknown is a pretty good driver. If things are so so, and alternative is guesswork or something that no one can put a finger on, but it might be ok or could be shit, then my vote is for the status quo everytime. When BMW issue a statement like they have today, then yes its scaremongering, but its also very real economics. For them to issue such a statement means to me that they already have contingency plans in case of a brexit, and that means moving production to an eastern european member state. Unfortunately what brexit may have already done is forced european members to create contingency plans which now highlight and existing economic reality - companies may act on these anyway.

Spot on, this would be an utter disaster, staying in AND losing production facilities.

If there were a Brexit and GBP did collapse, presumably BMW could sell their cheap UK made cars back into Europe? This is why your Nike running shirt sometimes says 'Made in China' and sometimes 'Made in Vietnam' its a form of production arbitrage.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

If they fast track Turkey into the EU then unfortunately I'm out - the cunt's

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Old Man wrote:

If they fast track Turkey into the EU then unfortunately I'm out - the cunt's

Not something to worry about while that murdering, homophobic, lying, hypobritical, sexist, genocidal cunt erdogan is in charge...

Only those who dream will someday see their dreams converted to reality

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

One of the arguments no one is having at the moment is, how do you keep the creeping reality of global capitalisation in check
Would we be able to keep the likes of Google Amazon etc under control in or out.
would we just become a stooge for the multinationals if we left at least the EU has much more leverage with the big boys than we would ever have

ambition beyond ability

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Djpekingman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

If they fast track Turkey into the EU then unfortunately I'm out - the cunt's

Not something to worry about while that murdering, homophobic, lying, hypobritical, sexist, genocidal cunt erdogan is in charge...

And he's the best of them.  There's a lot worse waiting in the wings for his exit.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

wogga wrote:

One of the arguments no one is having at the moment is, how do you keep the creeping reality of global capitalisation in check
Would we be able to keep the likes of Google Amazon etc under control in or out.
would we just become a stooge for the multinationals if we left at least the EU has much more leverage with the big boys than we would ever have

I guess the Republic of Ireland is the best example of what things could look like on this score.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Listening to Osbourne this morning and Nick Robinson just about teased enough information out of him to call a lot of what he was saying bullshit.  It comes across as a Daily Mail journo project and by that I mean "find whatever spurious 'evidence' you can to say that mortgage will cost more and house prices will go down."

I am behind the EU only in that I can't imagine what bullshit these Tories would try and pull without and as such I think "creating our own laws" with this mob is not a good thing.  I also believe that it's not possible to properly manage the country the way I would like to see it managed inside the EU but I don't trust the electorate to vote for a Government that thinks that way so I have to vote in with a slight tinge of regret.

Last edited by Reggie Perrin (Mon 18 Apr 2016 10:44 am)

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

I'm in the position where I disbelieve the Exit and the Remain campaigns.  They are both equally full of shit.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

space wrote:

I'm in the position where I disbelieve the Exit and the Remain campaigns.  They are both equally full of shit.

This

Ultimately it's about us getting a better deal within the EU - i.e.  more autonomy for the UK whilst still being a member state

You are what you repeatedly do. Excellence is not an event - it is a habit.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Exit is an unknown. The exit campaign is based on stuff they hope will happen. The stay campaign is based on what is more than likely will happen if you leave, based on some pretty stark warnings by business and financial institutions and world bodies. Why would you risk it by leaving? When the leave starts putting proper numbers in place and shows evidence that there will be agreements and it will be beneficial for the UK then it could be considered. Given what I'm hearing from europe itself they're not going to make it easy, which will result in some, if not all of what is being presented by the stay campaign. Everytime the stay issue a statement it is described as 'scaremongering' by exit with no contrary evidence.

Only those who dream will someday see their dreams converted to reality

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Smutty Lips wrote:

If I was in the UK now i'd vote to leave, but in the same way plenty of Leeds fans wanted Cellino to take over at Leeds, a sort of fuck it lets see what happens.

A and Osbourne are saying stay, isn't that enough reason to vote no.

Exactly what I was I thinking. I don't trust Osborne one bit, 'orrible twat.

'When you become a grown up, people stop asking you what your favourite dinosaur is....They don't even care.'

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

I do think the EU is in for a rough time over the next couple of years and if this vote was delayed until 2017/2018 then the outlook would be different.  The timing of this vote is quite deliberate methinks.

On the one hand, all the coffee table socialists intelligencia want that warm federalist feeling, and on the other hand the retired replublican demographic want to stop the fuzzy wuzzies from coming over here.  I get the same feelign that I have got for the last 3 general elections in that I identify with neither polarity. 

I honestly think the whole fucking system is so fucking rotten I want all politicians to be marched to Dover and put on small inflatable boats with nothing but a life jacket and a map of France and the message that they'll be shot if they turn back.  Fuck them.  Fuck parliament.  Fuck Europe.  Fuck France.  Fuck Cameron.  Fuck Corbyn.  Fuck Farage.  Fuck the Guardian.  Fuck the Mail.  Fuck London.  Fuck anyone who won't pay their taxes. 

Let's start again.

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Sounds like Gove and Trump - oops freudian slip there, Boris are getting desperate. Personal attack time!!

Last edited by Djpekingman (Tue 19 Apr 2016 8:28 am)

Only those who dream will someday see their dreams converted to reality

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Loved hearing Gove on The Today Programme this morning sneering about the EU rep at the WTO being a former sociologist. Says the former journalist Lord fucking Chancellor....

Dominic Grieve QC came on after him. And showed that 99% of what he said was utter bollocks. Still think we're leaving. Frightening but that's democracy.....

She’s the main man in the office in the city and she treats me like I’m just another lackey, but I can put a tennis racket up against my face and pretend that I am Kendo Nagasaki...

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Travis Bickle wrote:

Loved hearing Gove on The Today Programme this morning sneering about the EU rep at the WTO being a former sociologist. Says the former journalist Lord fucking Chancellor....

Dominic Grieve QC came on after him. And showed that 99% of what he said was utter bollocks. Still think we're leaving. Frightening but that's democracy.....

But if it's so clear cut TB it should not be left to untrustworthy shit heads like Osborne to conject that our mortgages will cost more and our houses will fall in value. 

My main concern about leaving is that I wouldn't trust a Government elected here to govern honestly and provide protection to the majority.  I reckon they would ride roughshod over most EU worker protections.  But I also think the EU is corrupt as fuck and if Turkey are allowed in I wouldn't want to be in it regardless.

I'd offer you a beer, but I've only got six cans.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Usually when I can;t decide something, I look at the other people involved in the arguement and try and side with the people I respect the most.  But as I have no fucking respect for any politician I can;t do this for the Brexit vote.  So I started going with what side had the lowest cunt quotient.

I was leaning towards remain, but then Gordon Brown waded in on the remain side, and to be honest I wouldn't believe that fuckwit if he told me the sky was blue.  So I was leaning towards brexit.  And then Nob of the Year 2008-2016 himself, Boris Fucking Johnson jumped into the ring, and lets face it, who the fuck would want to be in the same gang as that twat.

Cunts to the left of me.  Cunts to the right of me. 

Can anyone give me a proper low-cuntage arguement for either side?

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

No

"We are The Fall"

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Young Marxist at Tescos wrote:

No

Therein lies the problem.  Anyone who says they can explain it is lying.

What the fuck do we do?

Leeds United:  Boiling Barnsley's piss since 2018.

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

You can't give a definitive answer that one option is better than the other. Largely because leaving is a bit of a leap in the dark. And there are so many statistics that they start to blur into each other and become ultimately meaningless.
Is the EU perfect? Far from it. Does it require reform? Undoubtedly.
But I've read and listened to a lot of stuff. And for all the hype from the remain camp, WW3, Isis etc, I just don't buy the confidence of the Brexit mob that we'll become this economic and trade powerhouse once we lose the shackles of the EU.
You also have to imagine what will happen in domestic politics if we do leave. We'll have a Tory party, unfettered by EU law, led by the likes of Johnson and Gove. If you think the current incumbent doesn't give a fuck you ain't seen nothing yet.....

Last edited by Travis Bickle (Sun 22 May 2016 7:17 pm)

She’s the main man in the office in the city and she treats me like I’m just another lackey, but I can put a tennis racket up against my face and pretend that I am Kendo Nagasaki...

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

Travis Bickle wrote:

You can't give a definitive answer that one option is better than the other. Largely because leaving is a bit of a leap in the dark. And there are so many statistics that they start to blur into each other and become ultimately meaningless.
Is the EU perfect? Far from it. Does it require reform? Undoubtedly.
But I've read and listened to a lot of stuff. And for all the hype from the remain camp, WW3, Isis etc, I just don't buy the confidence of the Brexit mob that we'll become this economic and trade powerhouse once we lose the shackles of the EU.
You also have to imagine what will happen in domestic politics if we do leave. We'll have a Tory party, unfettered by EU law, led by the likes of Johnson and Gove. If you think the current incumbent doesn't give a fuck you ain't seen nothing yet.....

Nicely summed up Mr Trav. Why would you leave relative comfort for an unsubstantiated mirage of 'freedom'. Freedom from what. Travel round europe? There's only one country that is a twat to get in or out of, and that when you even hold a british passport. Border argument - gone. Dewsbury, bradford, 'ecky, Bolton, bury - never been an issue with european immigrants - another bag of bollocks. I cannot comprehend why one would want to leave a comfortable stable existence to jump into an unknown, but an unknown where every economist, financer or reputable world leader says don't be be so fucking stupid. Anything that Johnson (the UK trump) support by definition cannot be right. Please don't go down the septic road.

Only those who dream will someday see their dreams converted to reality

Share

Re: Should we stay or should we go?

The Turks are coming!

"A bigot,a person who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups and who regards members of these groups with hatred"

Share