Israel

Travis_Bickle

This conflict is revealing some worrying issues we're going to have to face at some stage.
If the scenes outside Downing Street are anything to go.by, we are literally a whisker away from 30s Germany. That's not hyperbole, it's happening right now. Jewish businesses being targeted, Jewish people facing violence if they walk certain streets and social media awash with racist tropes.
If it were all just about a ceasefire, I'd worry less than I do. But it's not.

space

Travis_Bickle This is awful and must stop. Let's also look at the situation in Israel and Palestine where Palestinians are getting gunned down in the street with impunity because I'd say that already is 1930s.

cordshoes

Travis_Bickle I still feel the daily actions of the Israeli government is fuelling it.
The images of dead children provokes an angry frustrated reaction, and the Jewish populations around the world are the target.
Netanyahu isn't helping the Jewish population become targets of hate, but guessing he isnt bothered.

space

Al Jazeera aren't pulling their punches with coverage. It's rolling pictures of lines of dead children with pixelated faces. The BBC etc is very much sanitizing what you see.

Travis_Bickle

I agree about the excesses of the current Israeli government. But why do we continually qualify concern about antisemitism? We rightly criticise those who ask members of the Muslim community to condemn Islamic terrorism. Why must there be a 'yeah but what about' when it comes to our Jewish community?

space

Travis_Bickle If you think there is no connection between the current wave of antisemitism and the media reporting of abuse of Palestinians at the hand of Israeli army and citizens I will apologise and withdraw my remark.

The most confusing thing about this is that it is our hard right that is pushing the pro-Israel line. I assume to keep their indirect Russian funding.

Travis_Bickle

It wasn't a dig. I'm just frustrated and worried at the amount of hate and bile out there at the moment. Mobs forming outside MPs offices isn't 'democratic accountability'. It's intimidation and undemocratic. It's not a road we want to go down but too many 'commentators' and 'influencers' are encouraging it.
God knows how toxic the next election will be.

cordshoes

Travis_Bickle Mobs forming outside MPs offices isn’t ‘democratic accountability’. It’s intimidation and undemocratic

It is shite and hear many people condemning it now because it is seen as bolshy Lefties doing it.

Never heard anything before about the long-term bullying and mental abuse of Female Labour MPs, like Angela Rayner, Jess Phillips etc, from these (right wing) people previously even when it has led to court cases, but now it's "disgraceful".

In a pithy/pathetic way, it reminds me in football of when players are having handbags on the pitch and the opposition players always go to pull the opposition players away, but never their own team-mates. Tell your own side to behave first.

space

cordshoes Always been a fan of Jess Phillips. You feel like she could have been leader if she had a different accent. And a cock. Or was in a different political party.

space

Watching the footage of the "control centre" they've found under the hospital, which seems to consist of a bunk bed and a dozen old soviet era rifles. It doesn't really look worth 12K dead but I'm not a military expert.

Travis_Bickle

The footage released of hostages being taken into a hospital raises some pretty troubling questions about the 'evidence' provided by NGOs, medical staff in the hospital, charities and a raft of reporters.
Even if you're prepared to buy the line now advanced by some that this was some sort of humanitarian gesture (and if you are, I have a bridge I can sell you), the fact that they were there flies in the face of the complete and unwavering denials from those I've mentioned. Add it to the testimony of a UK-based doctor to France 24 about his experience working there some months ago (essentially 'no go' areas within the hospital that linked to the basement with lots of armed men in them) and the issue becomes more concerning.
Space makes a good point though. We're not military experts. But that hasn't stopped a wave of bile and hatred towards Jews globally, one fuelled by those who clearly regard themselves as experts spouting words like genocide and war crimes.
We can spend months investigating and preparing a trial for shoplifting. It seems Israel have been found guilty of one of the hardest offences in prove in the criminal canon on the back of posts on X in a matter of days.
There may be some hope on the horizon. If the US have been able to broker a deal and a cessation, then we may have a period when the temperature can be lowered and solutions can be at least discussed.

space

Travis_Bickle Ever time I criticise the Israeli army you immediately link it to hatred of Jews. I can separate the two. I can also separate Hamas from Palestinian civilians.

CharlieG

A reoccurring phrase, in my head at least, is " Oh, those weapons of mass destruction"......

Travis_Bickle

space I didn't suggest you couldn't. And if it read that way, it wasn't my intention. But there is now literally no evidence that Israel can provide that will stop the bile emanating from so many on social media. I'd just ask that they apply the same critical eye to Hamas and their claims. But they don't. For so many of them that's not about politics. It's because they're racists who hate Jews.

90Piesanhour

The BBC habit of starting every report on the situation in Gaza with 'Hamas, who are designated as a terrorist organisation...' as well as quantifying every death list update with 'Hamas backed health organisation...' is really starting to grate, now. That and all the fucking killing.

cordshoes

90Piesanhour Yes,
In case we forget that of the 2 groups doing the killing, one are Terrorists and the other are a government who we are supposedly friendly with.

space

90Piesanhour The BBC habit of starting every report on the situation in Gaza with ‘Hamas, who are designated as a terrorist organisation…’ as well as quantifying every death list update with ‘Hamas backed health organisation…’ is really starting to grate, now. That and all the fucking killing.

Spend half an hour watching Al Jazeera.

space

Travis_Bickle All good. Sorry. It's a minefield to navigate as there really is no moral high ground left to occupy.

Reggie_Perrin

I wonder if the Andrew Tate fanboys have discovered he's a muslim and is a Hamas sympathiser yet. Awkward.

Misura

and this is not meant to be a dig at any side, but for me, this just sums up the total bullshit of the thing. About the tunnels. The best part of 20k dead on both sides, and it's just a game. It brings to mind the Bill Hicks gag about "How do we know that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction? We sold them to them".

Djpekingman

Misura Like an Israeli Comical Ali.

space

Misura The numbers that were hit the other day was that Israel had claimed to have killed 60 Hamas fighters and captured none - against (at that point) 12000 dead Palestinian civilians. It occurred to me that either the IDF were the worst shots in the world and weren't hitting anything they were aiming at, or they were the best shots in the world and they were hitting exactly what they were aiming at. Neither of those possible truths felt tolerable.

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