Israel

Travis_Bickle

YoungParisian_inExile Yes. Because it looked like people were really hoping more Israelis would die.

Foxy_Dread

Travis_Bickle when you defended Israel's right to hunt down Hamas what did you think would happen?

YoungParisian_inExile

Travis_Bickle
It's not really surprising is it ...
24 Isreali deaths ... . 17 thousand Palestinian kids... kids.

Travis_Bickle

YoungParisian_inExile what's not surprising? That people want more Israelis dead? Do you see the issue there?

Travis_Bickle

Foxy_Dread Hamas rogue organisation bad. Israel under attack bad. Israel defends itself, understandable?
You see the numbers differ but the principle is the same. When Israel kills civilians they're cunts that need killing, need a lesson in digging bodies out of rubble. When Iran do it? And Hamas before them? Well, there's not many of them dead. And they were only defending themselves. Add in some stuff about settlers and them buying the world's politicians and media......

Foxy_Dread

Travis_Bickle nowhere have I said Israel should not have responded to the October slaughter. How they should have responded is the tricky part and it was very soon apparent that it was going to be brutal.

I was horrified when I woke up and learnt of the attack on Israel.

Out of interest, what do you think Israel wants to achieve in Iran in order for Israel to stop the aggression.

YoungParisian_inExile

I didnt say that .
It's not really surprising that people might think that Isreal had this coming.

Travis_Bickle

YoungParisian_inExile imagine how Israelis feel. And have felt for decades. Attacked. Again and again. Surrounded by countries that despise them. And wage war on them. Again and again. Parties in power with a desire to kill all Jews. Everywhere. Then imagine them watching someone being beheaded for being Jewish. Watching kids scream next to their dead father as the killers livestream it and drink their Coke from the fridge.
Might that lead people to want revenge?
Why are the principles different?
You suggest Israel want to carry on killing Palestinians. What were Hamas and the Palestinians doing on October the 7th? And before? Killing Jews. If they had more guns, they'd kill more Jews.
Not all Palestinians. But when you talk about Israel having it coming and Israelis having it coming, it's no different. It condemns a whole population in the same way.
Let me be clear, I don't think it justifies much of what Netanyahu has done. And continues to. But if he was a recruiting sergeant for Hamas, what did they do to harden Israeli attitudes when they broke through those fences?
Genuine questions. Not looking for a scrap.

YoungParisian_inExile

Israel want to carry on killing Palestinians, all of them. Do 'you' see the issue here ?
56000 down ...

Foxy_Dread

YoungParisian_inExile 56000 and the rest. Add starvation, add missed hospital treatments, add not yet found under the rubble, these are all casualties of Israel.

Travis_Bickle

Foxy_Dread how is the tricky part. Particularly when you consider how Hamas operate. They love a uniform when they're parading coffins and lasses they've raped, but tend to go 'smart/casual' when actually fighting. Makes identifying them very tricky.
As for Iran, I think they want to completely dismantle Iran's nuclear capability. And the wider command structure. There are probably plans to destabilise the whole regime. They know that there is a desire there that can be exploited.

space

Travis_Bickle imagine how Israelis feel. And have felt for decades. Attacked. Again and again. Surrounded by countries that despise them. And wage war on them. Again and again. Parties in power with a desire to kill all Jews. Everywhere. Then imagine them watching someone being beheaded for being Jewish. Watching kids scream next to their dead father as the killers livestream it and drink their Coke from the fridge.
Might that lead people to want revenge?
Why are the principles different?
You suggest Israel want to carry on killing Palestinians. What were Hamas and the Palestinians doing on October the 7th? And before? Killing Jews. If they had more guns, they'd kill more Jews.
Not all Palestinians. But when you talk about Israel having it coming and Israelis having it coming, it's no different. It condemns a whole population in the same way.
Let me be clear, I don't think it justifies much of what Netanyahu has done. And continues to. But if he was a recruiting sergeant for Hamas, what did they do to harden Israeli attitudes when they broke through those fences?
Genuine questions. Not looking for a scrap.

Do you think their arab neighbours might not want to do them damage so much if they hadn't spent the last 70 years slowly ethnically cleansing the West Bank and blockading Gaza? Hate breeds hate and I can't see why you can only blame on one side of this escalating shit show. Meanwhile... as others have tried to point out here. 17000 dead children. There is NO excuse to do that.

Harvest

Maybe if they all just stopped knocking fuck out of each other and sat down and talked.

Foxy_Dread

What defines a terrorist organisation, are Mossad terrorists?

Foxy_Dread

Travis_Bickle I'm not sure what the first sentence means so will hold off responding.

Travis_Bickle

Foxy_Dread how Israel should and could have responded is the tricky part. I was agreeing with you.

Mitaman

Bombing this kind of gathering seems far more barbaric than the usual barbarism of war.

90Piesanhour

As an aside, how did Israel manage to cross the airspace of other countries to bomb Tehran without being intercepted? Cunts.

Young_Marxist_at_Tescos

90Piesanhour Whatever the Israelis have been up to, there’s widespread loathing of Iran, or rather the Iranian regime, from plenty of neighbouring countries. These countries might not cheer Israel on, but they’re quite happy to stand back and watch Iran get a kicking.

Iraq were a notable Iranian adversary. A state of war existed for most of the 1980s.

Travis_Bickle

space I'm not blaming one side. That has been my point from the very start of this whole debate. You are blaming one side. You are justifying the hatred for one side, not the other. I'm saying it cuts both ways.
When analysing the broader picture, the majority on here focus only on Israel. They ignore the ethnic cleansing of Jews from almost the entirety of the Middle East. The figures don't lie. Hundreds of thousands of Jews displaced. Pogroms, riots, expulsions. Of course Jews have done terrible things. But they are far from alone. Unless and until we try and recognise that on both sides, we get nowhere.

space

This is all Netenyahu trying to drag the US into a regional war to deflect from the fact he's killing/displacing 1.8 million people in the greatest war crime of the 21st century.

space

Travis_Bickle You are blaming one side. You are justifying the hatred for one side, not the other.

No I'm not. I'm just not mentioning that Hamas attacked Israel every single day because it happened quite a while ago and I'm confident that every one still remembers it. What I am talking about is the ongoing ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians that has been going on for 70 years and is accelerating to it's end game. I bring it up because it is still happening. Just because I do not mention the Hamas attack every day does not imply that I do not condemn it. But I do place it in the context of history. If you were treated as unwanted criminals in your own land for decades and denied the right to own property or have the dignity of basic civil rights then I'd bet the local Hamas recruiter would start to sound plausible to you too.

Hamas biggest recruiters are the Israeli settlers and the IDF. To say that the Israeli public are not to blame is to deny that they have been voting in the governments that allow the land grabs and occupations to go on.

Israel are killing children NOW. Today. And will do so tomorrow. I kind of think that justifies a bit of a mention.

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