General Election 2024

cordshoes

Looking at the election results in Europe, plus the UK % of right wingers increasing, and it appears that we could be heading into being a 1930s tribute act.

Foxy_Dread

Not a great time to be young.

I think the war is over, I'm not sure there is a plausible method for fighting back.

In the UK with both main parties supporting a neoliberal approach in a fptp system where do you turn?

Foxy_Dread

It's so frustrating that 15% of right wing voters can shift the debate / overton window so far away from the centre ground.

The left needs it's own version it could easily mobilise 15% of disenchanted centre left leaning voters, but it needs to be noticed and to do this it needs to appear in UK opinion polling data as a political entity separate from existing parties. That is the difficulty. The Lib Dems are an obstacle.

Reggie_Perrin

Foxy_Dread i suspect Labour and a lot of Labour voters are too frightened of losing to do that.

Anchor

Foxy_Dread Aren't the Lib Dems this socialist utopia that you speak of?

Anchor

Foxy_Dread The left needs it’s own version it could easily mobilise 15% of disenchanted centre left leaning voters

I was picking up on the bit where you said about mobilising left leaning voters - i'm ripe for mobilising btw - but who will mobilise them? The Lib Dem manifesto is more socialist that Labour right now - so the lib dems are the socialist utopia - I was also being slightly glib.

Foxy_Dread

Reggie_Perrin it's not relevant to this election. It would have to be a future strategy to create a mid term pressure for centre left policies.

10% of racists can manoeuvre both parties to the right. The only way to counter this is to create a left leaning version of UKIP that attempts to anchor the labour party to some core values.

Starmer is tieing his hands by the terms of the debate being set by the Tories. Labour is doomed to fail over the next five years. It's pandering to the right ensures this. In five years time Farage will be senior in a govt in waiting and the timidity of the labour party will be to blame.

Reggie_Perrin

Foxy_Dread I'd hope the strategy is to win first and have these discussions after. Amazing what you can do with a massive majority and a vague manifesto.

Foxy_Dread

Reggie_Perrin the Tories are pinning them down on tax rises for a reason. It's all strategic to tie Labour's hands. They can of course do what they want after the election, but if they wriggle and squirm when tax is mentioned, then raise taxes, they have to get it right or in five years they are fucked.

Foxy_Dread

Anchor not sure where I've mentioned a socialist utopia, I'm more concerned with stopping a slide even further to the right manipulated by Farage's backers. He doesn't give a fuck about winning more than one seat, it's all about pressurising the Tories. The centre left have the votes but no strategy.

Reggie_Perrin

Foxy_Dread is as it ever was though. Price of winning. I was thinking more about electoral reform and guaranteeing there will never be a Tory government again.

"Shat on by Tories, scooped up by Labour": Withnail 1969.

Foxy_Dread

@Anchor "#p576900 I'd categorise UKIP/Reform as a pressure group dressed up as political party. They are a sham.

The Lib Dems want to be a living political party which makes them unsuitable to be a one or two issue pressure group.

zico

Cooley

Anchor

Cooley What a meff.

Djpekingman

Anchor I believe Sky TV didn't really kick off until 1990. Sunak was 10. It didn't hit digital platforms until '98, by which time mummy and daddy were packing him off to university. Off course he didn't have fucking sky when he was a kid. The twat. On that basis I never had Sky as a kid. Mainly because it didn't fucking exist.

oneallanclarke

This, not fucking ‘wealth creation’ neoliberal Freedmanite trickle-down bollocks

Loose_Lips

oneallanclarke this concerns me a lot.

It's not clear to me if he wants to challenge this type of structural change too early.

It's clear if you take all his measured approach whether in 2/3 years he starts tackling this type of thing and as whole we get there is a sensible, controlled manner.

I think he is very, very wary that the Tories walk back in 5 years if he goes over the top.

This is what real government looks like I guess. Or is it just all bullshit.

Horrible conceptually. Necessary in reality.

I feel for those kids though.

Anchor

I struggled with the seven party debate last night. Could not really tell the difference between Mordant and Raynor (although it is a resounding yes to both in the practice stakes) and then the Greens, Lib Dems, SNP and the dips actually being progressive - fair play to the dips and the SNP for dragging Brexit up repeatedly.

Loose_Lips

You can't unpick 14 years of rampant right wing policies overnight.

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