Guest
Nothing to do with non conformity, gore. I've plenty of time for contrarians. It was the quality of the comment. It's at the kind of level that gets pinged around twitter by verbose, uninformed fuckwits, of which you are not one. At the moment attached to a photo of George Galloway. Benn is a Revie to Crow's warnock. Regardless of his views, if you have regard for proper politics, for debate, for principles, for skilled oratory and for political history, then you'll morn his passing. If not, then ho-hum.I have few Heroes, but a signed copy of one of his books sits proudly on my book shelf, along side a signed copy of simon Weston's autobiography.
gore
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fulmine
I've been playing Frank Chickens, Hank Wangford, Billy Bragg and 3 Mustaphas 3 all morning in tribute. Also been laughing heartily at Skint Video.
Foxy_Dread
Thats it i'm going to have to try and find the 3 Mustaphas 3 , Palace of Culture song, whatever it's proper title is.
Toronto_Ted
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Guest
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Toronto_Ted
Yep. Waiting for the Great Leap Forward always and still does fill me with hope
Mike_Jones
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Mike_Jones
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fulmine
Benn, and Barbara Castle as well, were pre-Murdoch politicians who hadn't been totally demonised by the tabloid press, weren't they? I'm talking about back in their 60s/70s heyday. People seemed to respect them (in very general terms, I mean), whatever their political views. Now it's all just crap showbiz. That's a bit of a romantic view of the past, I know, but it's not just Labour's conscience that's gone now.
MolOverBeethoven
A decent honest politician.
Djpekingman
RiP Wedgie, one of the great old guard alongside Foot and Skinner. Strange how the tory 'old guard' are never held in the same esteem, but tend to be figures of ridicule, much as all politicians of all parties are now.
luxury_scruff
Who's left before history turns them all into the same retrospective mush?Skinner?Mitchell?Who?
Mike_Jones
Ken Clarke should be in there if you're talking politicians of conviction. Otherwise drawing a blank, the same brand of upper-(middle)-class middle-manager Oxbridge conformist vanilla career politicians everywhere - the PM is a fucking PR twat ferfuxake, surely there's a law against that?
gore
Its funny, but all the self serving rebels are seen as a men of character in hindsight, while at the time they were seen as treacherous, back stabbing cunts. Patrician men of people seen as more 'proper' than the self made - Weggie v Heseltine for example. Even Clarke, who is a character these days. I guess its the age of mass suffrage and close up reality of our leaders shows them for what they are, rather than what their mate said they were. Lloyd George, Churchill and the like wouldn't last a week in this day an age - both fucking cranks who were protected by the club. And if you think Cameron is unusual, think again. Aside from Brown there hasn't been an authentic outsider in a position of power since Heath and Wilson strode the stage... and neither of them was terribly normal. So now we have plastic politicians because every day for them is like an inmate of Big Brother. And they can't even earn well now they've clamped down on the expenses. Which normal person would?
Mike_Jones
Cameron not unusual in most ways but PR, I mean come on, like having an advertising exec as PM. Agree with the rest tho, the celebretardification of all corners of society leads to the inevitable. Can you imagine Jeremy Thorpe or Cyril Smith getting into office now?! Probably not the most relevant examples!And expenses, pah! They've rigged the game so they walk into directorships etc. now, they're paid a decent wedge in office while they're playing their power games, then fucking milk it afterwards with jobs for the boys, even the civil service is in on the action now.
Mike_Jones
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Foxy_Dread
I sometimes wonder if Tony Blair was a plant or bought off, it sounds a bit far fetched but the establishment were thinking of a coup just a few years before.I didn't give it much thought until this Clegg business, two parties steered in a direction totally at odds of their relatively popular pre-election manifestos. Obviously they'd have to carry the party with them so probably had others working with them. Ridiculous i know but.....
Toronto_Ted
Not necessarily on here.. but is it me, or are there loads of people you know for a fact are far from the left are suddenly romanticizing over his career. I blame it all on Princess Diana - Britain the country that loves a good ol' death these days.
Foxy_Dread
BBC2 tonight, I'm not sure when it was recorded, but Kinnock and Hattersley stuck the boot in with relish. In their eyes he cost them power. An over simplification, Militant would have happened regardless and therefore Liverpool too, the Miners Strike would have happened regardless. There was enough there to keep the rabid press going who were really off the leash in the 80s and loved nothing more than an Islington lefty lesbians story. The programme suggested he was the mover of constitutional changes that led to the Gang of 4 leaving and that certainly didn't help and did contribute to the size of Thatchers second majority, but the Falklands was the key in 83.