fulmine
I've been playing Frank Chickens, Hank Wangford, Billy Bragg and 3 Mustaphas 3 all morning in tribute. Also been laughing heartily at Skint Video.
Foxy_Dread
Thats it i'm going to have to try and find the 3 Mustaphas 3 , Palace of Culture song, whatever it's proper title is.
Guest
Toronto_Ted
Yep. Waiting for the Great Leap Forward always and still does fill me with hope
Mike_Jones
Reggie Perrin wroteTravis Bickle wroteTony Benn
Christ. Saw him speak at a May Day rally in Chesterfield when I was a kid. Inspiring man who will be missed.
Labour has lost its conscience.
That was at least 20 years ago when that lying warmongering starfucker got in.
Mike_Jones
gore wroteMisura wroteNothing to do with non conformity, gore. I've plenty of time for contrarians. It was the quality of the comment. It's at the kind of level that gets pinged around twitter by verbose, uninformed fuckwits, of which you are not one. At the moment attached to a photo of George Galloway. Benn is a Revie to Crow's warnock. Regardless of his views, if you have regard for proper politics, for debate, for principles, for skilled oratory and for political history, then you'll morn his passing. If not, then ho-hum.
I have few Heroes, but a signed copy of one of his books sits proudly on my book shelf, along side a signed copy of simon Weston's autobiography.
There was a great obit from Ian Martin in the Telegraph that decided there were three different Benn's you could talk about:
1- The Technocrat
2- The Minister, colleague career killer and political assassin
3- the great Parliamentarian
If he's remembered for #3 then, yes your right - he will be mourned, but not so much from those very few who survive him in his #2 phase and suspect them who went before will have a cold welcome for him, whichever place he ends up. In some small way, I had family who were bitter political opponents of his (and Scargills) within the labour movement in the 70s and early 80s. They lost. :D
My response previously was more to FD's baiting (he won). He was always worth listening to and he was right about a few things to do with democracy and accountability, but the whole earlier bits will be airbrushed out and his track record of being wrong about most things he did in government and after will be passed over for the fact he was a dead
nice old buffer who handled Ali G
Reeeee-spec - out of all Ali G's early interviewees he's the only one who kept to his principles and didn't try to be down with the kids or some other embarrassing take, always thought that showed the kind of bloke he was, at least at that stage of his life. As you say, a career in stages, and the final stage his most impressive.
fulmine
Benn, and Barbara Castle as well, were pre-Murdoch politicians who hadn't been totally demonised by the tabloid press, weren't they? I'm talking about back in their 60s/70s heyday. People seemed to respect them (in very general terms, I mean), whatever their political views. Now it's all just crap showbiz. That's a bit of a romantic view of the past, I know, but it's not just Labour's conscience that's gone now.
MolOverBeethoven
A decent honest politician.
Djpekingman
RiP Wedgie, one of the great old guard alongside Foot and Skinner. Strange how the tory 'old guard' are never held in the same esteem, but tend to be figures of ridicule, much as all politicians of all parties are now.
luxury_scruff
Who's left before history turns them all into the same retrospective mush?
Skinner?
Mitchell?
Who?
Mike_Jones
Ken Clarke should be in there if you're talking politicians of conviction. Otherwise drawing a blank, the same brand of upper-(middle)-class middle-manager Oxbridge conformist vanilla career politicians everywhere - the PM is a fucking PR twat ferfuxake, surely there's a law against that?
gore
Its funny, but all the self serving rebels are seen as a men of character in hindsight, while at the time they were seen as treacherous, back stabbing cunts. Patrician men of people seen as more 'proper' than the self made - Weggie v Heseltine for example. Even Clarke, who is a character these days.
I guess its the age of mass suffrage and close up reality of our leaders shows them for what they are, rather than what their mate said they were. Lloyd George, Churchill and the like wouldn't last a week in this day an age - both fucking cranks who were protected by the club. And if you think Cameron is unusual, think again. Aside from Brown there hasn't been an authentic outsider in a position of power since Heath and Wilson strode the stage... and neither of them was terribly normal.
So now we have plastic politicians because every day for them is like an inmate of Big Brother. And they can't even earn well now they've clamped down on the expenses.
Which normal person would?
Mike_Jones
Cameron not unusual in most ways but PR, I mean come on, like having an advertising exec as PM. Agree with the rest tho, the celebretardification of all corners of society leads to the inevitable. Can you imagine Jeremy Thorpe or Cyril Smith getting into office now?! Probably not the most relevant examples!
And expenses, pah! They've rigged the game so they walk into directorships etc. now, they're paid a decent wedge in office while they're playing their power games, then fucking milk it afterwards with jobs for the boys, even the civil service is in on the action now.
Mike_Jones
Spoke too soon - Bez for PM!
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/mar/14/bez-happy-mondays-stand-parliament-salfordHappy Mondays' Bez reveals plans to stand for parliament
Dancer hopes to become MP in home town of Salford and pledges to end current banking system and redistribute wealth
"The 49 year-old, best known for shaking the maracas with the 1980s band"
Russell Brand for PM, Bez to lead Ministry for Justice
Foxy_Dread
I sometimes wonder if Tony Blair was a plant or bought off, it sounds a bit far fetched but the establishment were thinking of a coup just a few years before.
I didn't give it much thought until this Clegg business, two parties steered in a direction totally at odds of their relatively popular pre-election manifestos. Obviously they'd have to carry the party with them so probably had others working with them.
Ridiculous i know but.....
Toronto_Ted
Not necessarily on here.. but is it me, or are there loads of people you know for a fact are far from the left are suddenly romanticizing over his career.
I blame it all on Princess Diana - Britain the country that loves a good ol' death these days.
Foxy_Dread
BBC2 tonight, I'm not sure when it was recorded, but Kinnock and Hattersley stuck the boot in with relish. In their eyes he cost them power. An over simplification, Militant would have happened regardless and therefore Liverpool too, the Miners Strike would have happened regardless. There was enough there to keep the rabid press going who were really off the leash in the 80s and loved nothing more than an Islington lefty lesbians story.
The programme suggested he was the mover of constitutional changes that led to the Gang of 4 leaving and that certainly didn't help and did contribute to the size of Thatchers second majority, but the Falklands was the key in 83.
Reggie_Perrin
Mike Jones wroteReggie Perrin wroteTravis Bickle wroteTony Benn
Christ. Saw him speak at a May Day rally in Chesterfield when I was a kid. Inspiring man who will be missed.
Labour has lost its conscience.
That was at least 20 years ago when that lying warmongering starfucker got in.
no argument from me there but I meant with Benn gone it feels like there's nothing to link what many believe labour should be to the ridiculous pr machine it is now. I think many tolerated what the party has become so long as it still had socialism at its heart. Unless some old school thought comes to the fore I can see more splinter groups. More votes to independent old schoolers splitting the vote.
Foxy_Dread
There will be no splits of any consequence until PR comes in.
Reggie_Perrin
Foxy Dread wroteThere will be no splits of any consequence until PR comes in.
which wont happen